An Interview with Sarah Master

A candid chat with chef Sarah Master, including favorite dishes, why she loves (our) lamb, and the ‘waste not’ ethic of the Porter & Frye kitchen.
Interviewer: John Seymour-Anderson

John Seymour-Anderson: So Sarah, what is your first memory of eating lamb?

Sarah Master: Oh boy, um, I didn’t really get into food or cooking a whole lot until I moved to New Orleans just kind of on a whim.

When was that?

That was in 2001. It was right after I graduated from college. I grew up in Minnesota. So, I met a guy down there who loves to eat… who—eventually I got married to him. But, he took me out to a place called Jacque-Imo’s and he ordered a lamb shank, a “beggar’s purse”— it was stuffed with oysters. I’d never had lamb before, you know. I grew up on the iron range, so I grew up eating tater-tot hotdish and goulash and things like that. He let me taste it and it was amazing. I’d never tasted anything like it. So that was the first time.

What is the first lamb dish you remember cooking?

Again, it was lamb shank. I worked at a little bistro called Martinique Bistro down in New Orleans, and the chef there did a lamb shank braised in Guinness. So that was the first time I’ve ever cooked it.

Kind of similar to that — what is the first lamb dish you remember watching the preparation of by a chef that you consider a mentor?

Well, I worked at a restaurant called Bayona down on the French quarter. Susan Spicer is the chef there, a James Beard Award-winning chef—she just opened a new restaurant. She did a lamb loin, it’s one of her signature dishes, that had herbs de Provence in goat cheese with a little bit of sundried tomatoes. And, we would grill the lamb loin and slice it, crumble the cheese on top… and it came with a zinfandel sauce. That was amazing! Lamb and goat cheese are insanely good together.

Wow, you know I’ve never had them together.

Yeah, it’s delicious.

(She rolled her eyes when she said that, too.) It was really good.

It was really, really good.

Okay, do you have any memories of eating lamb that fit into the basic meat and potatoes kind of experience, as opposed to what you do here? Did you ever have anything like that when you were a child?

No. My mother, bless her heart, was a terrible cook. My dad was really good, but we, um, he grew up hunting and everything, so we ate a lot of venison and stuff like that. So, I didn’t get a whole lot of lamb growing up.

So what, both as a person who likes to eat and as a cook, interests you about lamb and the possibilities of lamb?

You can do… to me it’s like pork… I mean you can do almost anything with it. And, you know, I get whole lambs from Larry (Larry Moses Jacoby of Shepherd Song Farm)— and we use every last piece of it. Everything. I think, on a whole animal I get less than one pound of unusable trim. So, I make bacon out of the bellies, we use…

Really?

Yeah.

What is the bacon like?

It’s really wild tasting. It kind of depends on what you cure it in. I do a caraway, coriander, brown sugar, and some fennel seeds.

Do those flavors modify the lamb flavor or do they just accentuate?

I think it just enhances it. Yeah. So, I mean we do everything. We braise it. We use the loins for specials, use the bones for stock. Everything!

That’s great. Now, do you use, what are they—the sweet meats and other things like that—do you use those types of organs?

Yeah we do. We do some liver and kidneys, we use those. We can braise them and slice them. A lot of times we cure them or make patés out of them to put on our charcuterie plate. So, again, we use everything.

Wow! Let’s see, so what is the most unique preparation of lamb that you’ve enjoyed? And don’t be humble. It could be something you made.

Um, I think the bacon really is one of the most unique things because it’s got such a different flavor than pork bacon. We do some, that’s what I was doing downstairs today, actually. I was hickory smoking some (lamb) bacon that we had. And it’s such, like a sweet kind of wild flavor. It’s just, it’s not like anything I’ve ever tasted before. It’s got that like salty bacon-ness to it but it’s, it’s so different. It’s not what you expect at all.

So, is there fat that you trim that doesn’t end up in the bacon or other things, and do you use that for something else?

Meatballs. We do. We have a Swedish meatball dish and I also, we make our own sausages here.

Swedish meat ball with lamb…

Yup. So, with the Swedish meatballs we’d use a combination of lamb, pork—sometimes we have a little bit of bison trim that we put in there. But, yeah, we use, try to use everything, don’t waste anything.

I’m getting hungry. Are there ways that you can use lamb that are unique compared to other meats?

Yeah, I mean I think it pairs well with things that don’t often pair well with other things, you know. Lamb and artichokes for example— artichokes don’t pair well with a lot of food. They’re kind of bitter, always a nightmare to try to pair with wine.

These are artichokes that you’ve prepared… from fresh artichokes.

Yes. It’s hard to find things that pair up well and that can stand up to the flavor of artichokes, and lamb is one of those things. And, goat cheese is another thing that pairs really well with artichokes. So you know, the combination of all of those things works really well together. It just, it’s one of those food marriages that works.

Are there any other examples that come to mind?

I like to do like sour things with it. Because it can withstand that, you know, uphold that flavor. Sour cherries, things like that. Like the dish I’m going to prepare for you today has pickled cherries on it.

Pickled cherries?

Yes. So, it’s something that, it can hold up to a lot of sweetness. Lamb flavor can really take a walloping.

Are there, in all the different ways that you use a carcass, ways that you know of, curing, drying— ways of naturally preserving lamb meat? Or, like hard sausages, where it’s mixed with other things, more than just cured and dried, aged?

Yeah, you can definitely do that. We tend to use it fairly fresh. I think Larry hangs it for a week before we get it. And then, I mean— it’s so fresh when it comes in. Most of the time when you get animals in the joints don’t really move that much. But, yeah, it’s (lamb from Shepherd Song Farm) so fresh—you cut into it and it’s that beautiful bright red color. It’s just unbelievable. We mostly use fresh but I do cure sausages and things like that with the lamb.

Do you make a variety of types of sausage with lamb?

Yeah, I do. We do. Last time we got a lamb in I did, I did a fresh sausage that was… we stuffed it with thyme and just garlic and shallots. Then I also used some trim to make a terrine for the charcuterie plate that’s kind of like Merguez. It’s got like paprika and cinnamon, dates, and pistachios, I think. That one we bake like a meatloaf, almost, and then press it so it comes out—it’s similar to meat loaf, but—not as crumbly.

Is it denser?

Yeah. It’s really dense.

What’s Merguez?

Merguez is a north African sausage. It’s got a little spice to it, a little kick.

Are the sausages all fresh?

No. We do some cured but mostly fresh.

Do you remember any other lamb experiences in any other restaurants in the Twin Cities that you worked in?

Um, let’s see. I was at Barbette. There, again, I used it. I mean I was the chef there, so we could do whatever we wanted. Within reason. But yeah, we did a lamb burger over there that I think is still on the menu. I’m not sure exactly. It had thyme, pine nuts and dried currants mixed into it and, again, goat cheese on top, and came with a little side salad. That was a favorite snack of my cooks. We’d make little sliders out of them. But I’ve also done a braised lamb pain perdue, which is basically—we’d take the shoulders and braise them and then kind of pull the meat and did like an apricot brandy demi-glace with dried apricots and wild mushrooms. And then you serve it over a piece of French toast. So, “pain perdue“—“lost bread” (French).

Hidden bread?

Yeah, exactly. That was pretty delicious. That’s one of my… I always keep that one in my pocket just to pull out every once in a while.

Anything special about the batter to the French toast? Or is it real simple?

Pretty simple. We would often put sprigs of rosemary in it so that it got that nice rosemary flavor. Other than that, a little bit of cinnamon.

I’m pretty clear from your Heavy Table interview that finding local sources for ingredients is really important. Anything you want to say about that, how rich the possibilities are here and…

We’re in the middle of farm country. I can’t, I just can’t fathom that people around here wouldn’t want to do that. You know— to get the freshest stuff. We get things that get pulled out of the ground the day before, or that morning. You know, how can you, how can you beat that?

How did you learn about Shepherd’s Song Farm?

I learned about them through the Six Rivers Co-op. We get produce, milk and things from them. They have the best chocolate milk I’ve ever had in my life.

They’re in Wisconsin right?

Yes. And then, Larry’s farm, Shepherd Song Farm is also in the co-op. I used to go through a different farm and…

For lamb?

Yeah and I, just randomly one day bought some chops through Six Rivers Co-op and it was Larry’s lamb and I was just blown away by how delicious it was. It’s so good.

Did you learn about them before coming here?

Yes. Learned about them at Barbette. I’ve been here just over a year and we never really had lamb on the menu. I finally just said, “you know what, I’m going to do it. I’m going to call him up (Larry) and see if he can bring me whole carcasses.” He thought I was crazy but, but yeah…

I think they’ve been impressed. You kind of told me this, but I’m going to ask anyway. In terms of the whole carcass, how does it… are there any advantages to buying that way that you haven’t already told me about?

I just feel like it’s the most sustainable way to buy the animal. You know, you’re not just using the loins or the chops. You know, you’re really utilizing that whole animal right there. So I just, I feel really passionate about it. I would love to do it with all of my animals. But, obviously this place isn’t big enough to, you know, buy whole cows and things like that. But I just really think that if you can do it that way you should do it that way. Because then there’s not a surplus of shoulders lying around or necks or something like that.

I think it’s really cool, it leaves it to the ingenuity of the chef to then imagine what can be done, I think it would be like having like a painter’s palette. You’ve got a bunch more things to play with… and what you can produce…

Right. And, it’s fun for me, and it’s fun for my cooks to see what you can actually do with a whole animal. Because they’ve never seen, a lot of them have never seen where the loin comes from. You know, you learn about it in school but you never actually see it and touch it so you can say, “count down this many ribs and that’s where the chops start.” And, you just hands-on show them how to do it. It’s invaluable.

Okay. So, you said a little bit already, but I’m interested in what distinguishes and how you compare both the flavor and the texture of Shepherd’s Song Farm’s lamb with other lamb that you’ve had experience with.

It’s really, it’s the best I’ve tasted. You can tell that the animals are free range. You can tell that they’re eating what they’re supposed to be eating just because the flavor is so intense. It’s so lamby. He’s got, you know, the fat content to meat content of it is really great. You can tell that, you can just tell by tasting it and tell by looking at it that they’re happy animals.

With your experiences with other lamb, have you, for example, known if the lamb is being fed some grain rations, other stuff in addition to grazing. And, can you… how would you differentiate those, the flavor of animals that are fed that way?

I think the flavor is just a little bit more muddled, and it’s definitely a milder flavor. You can definitely tell the difference. If I put a plate of lamb in front of you that came from Sysco as opposed to one of Larry’s lambs you would definitely be able to tell the difference. But you want it to have some intensity. Otherwise you might as well just be eating beef. It’s more intense flavor and better marbled. It’s not cookie-cutter every single time. You can definitely tell the difference.

How do you define better marbling in lamb?

Um, if you look at a loin, like a commercial loin, it usually doesn’t have any marbling in it. And, Larry’s—you can definitely see it in the chops—more so than the loin. But it’s definitely got, just a little. I mean lamb doesn’t ever have a whole lot, but yeah, you can see just a little bit of in there (in the loin).

So does that contribute both flavor and tenderness as well?

Yes. Definitely in the flavor. I mean, the fat in it is what really kind of gives it that. So, yeah, once that melts away into the meat it’s just, it’s an intense flavor.

Is there anything different about how you cook Shepherd Song’s lamb versus other lamb?

Because it does have a little bit more fat on it than other lambs I’ve used, I think you can do a lot more with it. You can cook it at a higher temperature to kind of caramelize that fat, you know.

Just in a searing sense or throughout the meat?

In a searing sense. So, I mean if you leave that cap, the fat cap on a loin while you sear it, that also protects and bastes the meat while you cook it (in the oven). So, you know, you can eventually take that piece (of fat) off if you don’t want to eat it. But, I think it’s so advantageous to keep that on there while you’re cooking it because it continually—while it’s in an oven—will baste that meat with that flavor.

What do you think the 100% grass fed approach that Shepherd Song Farm takes contributes to what you’re seeking and finding in their meat?

Well I like the way that they raise their animals because—

Have you been to their farm?

I haven’t been out there yet, no. But, I mean I just, I like the way that they handle the animals doing it in the most sustainable way. And I do think that, you know, the grass fed is—that’s what they’re supposed to be eating. So I definitely agree with that, and I think it’s so clear what it does to the flavor of the meat. So, I’m, I’m really glad that they’re doing it the way they’re doing it because it’s delicious.

What is your experience in terms of consistency of flavor, texture and portions in their meat?

Well they grow them to a certain size before they slaughter them. They don’t just say, you know, “Oh, Sarah needs a lamb today so I’m going to go out and kill one.” They grow them to a certain size and that’s, you know, that’s the size I get. If I have to wait, I have to wait. But he does slaughter about every three weeks, and that, interestingly, has been perfect for us.

So you get them about once every three weeks?

Yes. Or, he does have a surplus of shoulders and things that, you know, people don’t tend to use, so I can order those bi-weekly.

Those come frozen, right?

Yes. They do come frozen. That’s another kind of downfall of running out of it. But, the flavor is still there. It doesn’t hurt the texture of it really. It’s still really flavorful. So, yeah, it’s just worked out really well for us. His schedule and the size of the animals has been perfect.

What could Shepherd Song Farm do to improve your experience with their products?

Well, the way that they’re doing things now has worked out so well for us. You know, I mean if we were, you know, a bigger restaurant that sold more, or something… there would probably be more demand for it. I probably wouldn’t be able to last three weeks. But, it’s just, it’s been crazy how it’s been really perfect every time. It’s like, “well, we’re almost out of lamb“… “well one’s coming on Thursday.” So it’s really worked out well the way that he does things. I think it shows how responsible of a farmer he is that he’s going to raise the animals right and do it his way and if we run out, we run out, and we just have to wait.

How have you found response to lamb here with your customers?

Some people, you know, some people just don’t like that flavor. And I always tell them, “just trust me, try it. Just try it.” We have a separate bar menu, and we’ve been running a lamb burger on the bar menu with a grilled pineapple aioli, and that’s been going over really well.

You really didn’t tell me a lot about how they can improve your experience other than if you got bigger. That’s kind of “it” unless there’s anything you’d like to say that I didn’t think to ask or any questions you want me to convey back to them.

Um, I don’t know. I mean I’m really happy with their product. It’s really, really, really good lamb. So, I just hope they keep going the way that they’re going and, you know, keep it small and local. Because it’s, I mean like I said, it’s delicious.

Yeah. They seem quite clear about having reached a size that is right for them.

Yeah, that’s good. Because it’s all in the flavor. That’s the way that you can tell that they’re doing it differently than other people are doing it. Because it’s a very distinct flavor.

Well, thank you very much.

You’re welcome.