An Interview with Lucia Watson

Recollections and thoughts about her mother’s kitchen, her lifelong love of lamb, why she loves our lamb, her long-time partnership with local farmers—and how all these factors come together at her inspired Midwestern dining destination, Lucia’s.
Interviewer: John Seymour-Anderson

Find recipes for the dishes featured in the images below:
• Lucia Watson’s Pizza with Lamb Sausage, Feta, Tomato and Herbs
• Lucia Watson’s Braised Lamb Shanks with Roasted Root Vegetables

John Seymour-Anderson: What is your first memory of eating lamb?

Lucia Watson: Hmm. That’s a good question. Well, when I was little, my mom would make a curried lamb stew.

Curry lamb stew?

Yeah, and that was one of her classics – it must have been like a well known recipe for homemakers back then, because a lot of moms made it, and it was really good. It had lots of celery in it and lamb and curry. It wasn’t spicy curry. It was sweet curry, and she’d serve it with rice. That’s my first memory. It was really good.

Do you have memories of eating lamb that kind of fit in the basic meat and potatoes kind of realm as opposed to something a little more…

Yeah, like we would do—she would do a roast leg of lamb sometimes, and she had a nice mint sauce recipe that was my grandmother’s. It’s fresh mint, so she’d make that in the summer. That recipe is in my first cookbook actually. It’s really good, and so she would do that, which had potatoes… That was more of a special dinner, I would say. That wouldn’t be something we’d eat every night.

Was that a family recipe — I mean, that came out of generations from your family, or not necessarily?

Not necessarily. The mint sauce did, for sure, but I wouldn’t say the roast leg of lamb. That was more just like a “throw it in the oven, and, you know, whatever“ classic.

So was lamb kind of an equal contender as a meat in your family’s cooking?

I would say, yeah, I would say that that is true.

It seems, from people I’ve talked with, (lamb as a popular choice) is less likely, from our generation forward.

Oh, really? No kidding? No, I would say it was, in my family, it was pretty (common)…

Where did you live?

I grew up here in Minneapolis.

What is the first lamb that you remember watching the preparation by a chef that you considered a mentor?

Well, I remember when I worked at 510 Groveland. This is probably 30 years ago, and we had leg of lamb. At that time we got our meat from Johnson Meat Company which was over on Nicollet and 24th, 22nd. And, Wally Johnson owned Johnson Meat Company. He was what I consider a master butcher, the kind of butchers that they don’t make any more. He came over, and he butchered that lamb for us in front of all of us young chefs, and he was just amazing. To watch such a skilled butcher take down a leg of lamb was really, really neat—to just see a master like that work, you know.

So then, that was where you first saw another chef, when you were learning?

Yeah.

And what kind of dish, do you remember?

It was leg of lamb, and I think we just rolled it with garlic and probably herbs and then tied it and roasted it, you know, and then we’d slice it.

Tied it?

Well, you bone it out.

Oh, okay.

Yeah, you bone it out, and then you sort of lay it flat, and you rub it with garlic and herbs and stuff, and then you roll it back up, and then you tie it and roast it.

And how about the first lamb that you remember cooking? That was at home?

It was actually, it was home when I was little. I cooked a lot when I was little, and I really wanted to make lamb shanks, oddly. So my Mom went and bought them, and we made them, and I just loved them. I’ve always loved them.

Do you remember how you prepared it?

I don’t. I’m sure it was a pretty simple—I’m sure we just cooked them long and slow in broth, you know, like the classic shanks. I don’t remember. But I liked them. I’ve liked them ever since.

How about in a restaurant, what do you remember cooking first?

I would say it would be that memory at 510.

So what about lamb interests you both as a cook and somebody who likes to eat – what distinguishes it?

Well, I think it’s got a – well, certainly the flavor profile is distinct from other meats. And, one of the things I love about lamb, and especially shanks, is the way they get— the texture gets almost sticky and silky when they’re cooked correctly. And the broth gets a really glossy texture to it that I really, really like. And, I like doing chops, too. I love grilling chops—they’re very versatile, you know. You can just grill them. And they can go in so many directions—you can make them, you know, spicy with like hot peppers or with a hot curry or something like that, or you can make them savory with sweet peppers and herbs, and you can make them sweet. That’s a versatility that beef, for example, I wouldn’t think has, you know— pork to a certain extent, but less so than lamb, I think.

So what are flavors, both obvious and surprising, that you like to pair with lamb?

Well, kind of like what I just said, you know, the whole gamut of hot and spicy to savory to sweet.

Sure. I mean, like accompanying— accompaniments, or even beverages?

Well, I think in the summer, if I’m grilling chops, I would drink a rosé wine. And then in the winter, I think, like along with…shank, I would drink a hardy, deep, red wine. Then, in terms of accompaniments, that’s really a seasonal thing for me more than what the meat itself is. So, in the winter, again, you know, if I were doing a sliced leg of lamb, I’d probably serve it with something like potatoes or rice or root vegetables. Then, in the summer, the same leg of lamb, I would probably pair it with maybe a pasta tossed with pesto or a baked tomato—more of the fresher garden things. In spring, maybe asparagus, you know, something like that.

So, you mentioned 510 Groveland. I just want to fill in the blanks because I didn’t know… You’ve been in the Twin Cities with this restaurant a couple decades—

Twenty-six years, here at Lucia’s.

Where did you cook before that?

Before that, I had a catering business, and I did catering for about four years. And then before that is when I was at 510, and before that, I worked at a couple of restaurants out on the East Coast outside of Washington, D.C.

But prior to that, you cooked at home as a child?

Yup, yup.

Can you think of a preparation of lamb that you’ve experienced or know about that is about as unique as you can imagine—unusual?

I think some of the things that Indian cooking does with lamb are pretty unique, like putting it into certain doughs, like fried breads or things like that. They are pretty interesting and delicious. And then serving those with like a yogurt cilantro dip or something like that. Otherwise, I can’t really think of anything that…

Is the lamb, when it’s put in the dough, is it put in raw or is it… ?

No.

So, It’s added to the dough, and then it’s baked, or how is it… ?

Yup, or deep-fried, uh-huh.

So that’s quite late in the preparation?

Yeah, yeah.

So, is the dough more like a textural addition, or are there things that, flavor-wise, happen?

No, it would be like a texture addition, you know, like an empanada, like a little meat pie kind of thing. I think British cooking, too, does some stuff with meat pies where they use some lamb or things like that.

I’m going to switch a little to talk a little more about your current source of lamb, Shepherd Song Farm, and their method of growing. So what are your impressions of the difference that 100 percent grass fed lamb offers in the meat that you’re buying?

Well, a couple of things. First of all, I like the humaneness of the operation. I like that it’s a small farm in that they’re here, I can talk to them, I know them, I could go visit them if I wanted to. They’re not some faceless industrial farm. I like to support a local farmer. I like to know that my money is going to them and their family and the local economy. And in terms of the flavor of the lamb, I mean, their lamb is so delicious. It’s not only a flavor that’s not too strong, you know. People talk about that lamby meat flavor, and theirs isn’t – it has just the right amount of that. But, it’s also a texture thing. It’s very tender. It’s what I like to call a clean flavor lamb – meaning it’s not overwhelming or distracting. It’s just a really nice lamb, and they’re a wonderful family.

Yeah, they are. I don’t know about running a restaurant, so it’s interesting to think about how you would choose to have different dishes with different meats, kind of as a total offering. Is lamb, you know, like an important part of… ?

Well, what I do here is I have a very small menu. I only have four things that I offer, and I change it every week, and one of those entrees is always some kind of a meat. So I rotate in different cuts of lamb or beef or pork. This week I’m doing a pork cushion meat that’s braised with root vegetables and stuff.

And so I do these projections as to when I’m going to run different meats, and then I can let the farmers I work with know, you know, “in three weeks I’d like to run shanks. Can you get me enough? Can you deliver them on time?” And they might say, “no, but we have legs”.

You know, Larry said he’s trying to develop a six-legged lamb. [laughter]

So yes, it does play an important role in that place on my restaurant menu. And then, again, as well, things like leg of lamb sausage pizza, you know, or some of the soups, like a lamb barley soup— we might use little scraps. If we ran a leg of lamb, we’d save all the scraps—or shank. We’d save little pieces from the braise and stuff and make a delicious soup out of those. Or we might use ground lamb to do a ground lamb patty with Mediterranean flavors in it, raita yogurt cucumber dipping sauce or something like that.

Do you have any impressions of the nutritional differences in grass raised lamb?

Well, I’m not a scientist, but from what little I’ve read, any time you can eat something grass fed, you’re getting way more Omega vitamins and minerals—and much, much healthier cuts of meat. And, everything from eggs and chicken to butter and lamb, you know, any time you can get that grass fed, you’re getting those extra vitamins, and so on.

You touched on this already, but maybe a little more history about how you view the importance of local sources for your ingredients?

Well, let’s see, what did I not say? Well, certainly, you know, the freshness is important, too, besides everything else I said. And that would be particularly true in a produce context, you know, because you’re just going to get fresher, better produce if you’re buying it locally than you would from stuff, again, from faceless farmers that ship from California and Chile, which obviously we have to do here in the winter. I mean, I’m not opposed to it. It’s just that when I can, I would prefer to buy local food, and so that’s really important. The other interesting thing is that I can often get farmers to grow specific things for me, you know. So I can meet with them and say, “Can you grow me, I don’t know, a certain kind of pepper?” Or, certain kinds of lettuces, you know, just all kinds of things – fruits, stuff like that, and that’s really wonderful.

How has that changed in the time you’ve… ?

Oh my gosh, it just gets better and better every year. Every year there’s more availability locally. It’s just great.

Are people experimenting with pushing the seasonal limitations?

Yes, oh my gosh! Well, and the weather has changed, too, so now, I mean, one of my farmers told me we’re actually in another (climate) zone now than we used to be. And so the season is much… I’m still getting lettuce, you know, and it’s October 21st. I’m getting local lettuce, and I’m still getting local tomatoes. Those tomatoes on that pizza—the yellow ones—were local. There’s just lots of stuff. Yes, the season—it’s extended the other way, too, in that people are having more hoop houses, you know, to grow greens and stuff like that.

Is that sufficient? I mean, can they grow year round with them, or is still… ?

Some of them. But it’s a production issue, you know, in terms of quantity. But even whatever I can supplement is just fantastic. Also, just storage for root vegetables, I see that extended way longer than it ever used to.

So the farmers are storing it or you store it?

Farmers. I don’t have room to store it. I freeze a lot of berries—and tomatoes— but I don’t have room to store root vegetables, and I don’t have the right kind of temperature and humidity facility. But, like Harmony Valley—they have a huge root cellar, you know. And, White Water Gardens, now they have a geothermal grain house, and they’re growing stuff—their season is way extended. There’s really cool stuff happening. It’s really exciting.

Do you promote the different sources in the restaurant?

Not particularly, like I would say on my menu “Shepherd Song Farm lamb”, but I wouldn’t say, “with White Water tomatoes and, you know, Featherstone potatoes,” and blah blah blah. I would tell my staff that, so if somebody asked, they could inform them, but some people don’t, you know… I get such a variety of people eating here, for different kinds of experiences. Some that might want the whole spiel, and some are just having a business lunch, you know. So it’s not a priority—plus there’s only so much room on the menu.

Right. So, during your time here at Lucia’s, have you noticed a change in appetite for, demand for lamb?

I think so. I think that, you know, when I used to cater, I’d suggest lamb, and people would just be like, “No, no, nobody likes lamb”. But now I think that has changed. I think people have a broader appreciation for lamb and like it more. Yeah.

And do you do things like Indian, I mean, curries, or things like that?

Not with lamb, no, no. We would do more of the things I mentioned, like leg or chop or braise or sausage or a patty, like a Mediterranean, or something like that.

So they tend to be more European inspirations?

I would say, yeah.

How did you learn about Shepherd Song farm?

My friend, Dale Wykoff. Do you know Dale? He has a farm really close to them. He suggested that I give them a call, yeah.

What does he raise?

His is just a hobby farm, so I think he lets Larry’s sheep graze on his land.

What are the cuts you buy most often—of lamb?

I would say, leg, shank and chops would be the most, and then that would be followed by ground.

And there are others that you would like to try, but you don’t see an audience for?

Well, we got some neck one time that was really, really good. I don’t think we got that from Larry. And we braised that, and we turned it into a ravioli, and that was really delicious. And shoulder—we don’t use much shoulder, but that might be something fun to try.

What do you do with shoulder? Is it braised?

I would braise it, yeah, braise it and serve it like a stew or something like that, uh-huh.

Is they’re anything else about Shepherd Song farm that stands out to you?

Lori, can you think of anything? This is Lori. This is John. Lori does all the purchasing here, so she would be good to ask that, too.

What distinguishes Shepherd Song farm as a provider of lamb both operationally? Or, it can be the meat itself.

(Lori:) Well, I think the meat is delicious, so that goes without saying. That’s the most important. But they are very, they’re very caring and conscientious about us as their customer, always wanting to make sure that they’re giving us… They care about what we want, and our timing of things, and making sure that we’re getting what we need, when we need it. They share a lot about their lambs, and they’re very proactive. They call us… “we’re slaughtering lambs coming up on this date. What can we hold for you?” They just take good care of us.

It sounds like the consistency of the meat and the portions and the cutting is good, then?

Yeah. I would say, wouldn’t you, Lori? I think they’re really consistent, and that’s tricky with those small butchers, you know , small processing plants. Yeah, no, I think it’s really good.

(Lori:) Shepherd Song is always able to provide whatever we want, or some fantastic alternative—when we need it, you know. And then, I think there is the consistency, like you said, which is really important. When we get chops, we know that every chop is going to be exactly what we need.

Yeah.

Okay. Is there any difference in the flavor or texture of their meat with other …?

Well, I think their texture, like I was saying, is really tender and pretty consistent, and I think the flavor is good, too. It’s not, again, like I was saying, it’s not overly lamby or muttony. It’s got a nice, sweet flavor profile, yeah.

This is near the end. Is there anything – they’re interested in knowing if there’s anything that they could do differently that would, you know, improve your experience?

Gosh, I don’t think so. No, I don’t think so.

Is there anything you can think of that I didn’t think to ask?

No, you were pretty thorough, I think.